Hoare is full of ‘optimism’ (recently, he has taken on the role of St George, slaying the dragon of ‘defeatism’ at every step). Although the next six months may be difficult and complicated, it will not come to war. Hitler and Mussolini have missed the moment for a major initiative against Western countries. Hoare is also convinced that Hitler will not venture to attack the Ukraine, because he does not want to get stuck in a war that can never end. The growth of British and French armaments, Roosevelt’s speech on 4 January, and Chamberlain’s recent statement promising unconditional assistance to France, have made it clear to Germany and Italy that a second Munich is out of the question. Hitler and Mussolini will not enter a war against Britain and France. The return of their former colonial territories is not a topic for serious discussion. Facilitating their access to raw materials is another matter. Here, if they so wished, certain concessions would be possible. Likewise, France could make some non-territorial concessions to the Italians (Djibouti, the Suez Canal and the status of Italians in Tunisia). Hoare is absolutely certain that Britain and France will succeed in ‘buying’ Franco. This is the essence of the British government’s Spanish policy now. But Hoare does not think that the recognition of Franco could occur unconditionally. In any case, he thinks that even if Franco does win a decisive military victory, a solid and definitively established regime is inconceivable in Spain for at least another five years.

During our conversation, Hoare mentioned that he knew Mussolini personally, having met him during the war, when Mussolini was a corporal in the Italian army and editor of the socialist Avanti. At that time, Mussolini adhered to a far-left, anti-war position, and Hoare, as head of British ‘intelligence’ in Italy, made efforts to convince him to change his mind and follow a different line.

‘I eventually succeeded,’ Hoare said modestly.

‘And how much did it cost you?’ Ewer, who was also sitting at the table, casually asked.

Everyone burst out laughing. Hoare was slightly embarrassed but immediately regained his self-control and answered with a particular smile: ‘One doesn’t talk about these things, but we all know that propaganda costs money.’

The way Hoare spoke about the USSR was entirely unexpected. He lavished praise on our air force and mocked those who speak of the weakness of the Red Army. He said: ‘You are a country which can never be defeated. We, too, are a country which can never be defeated. Both our countries, unlike others, are capable of taking a long-term view when assessing events. It doesn’t matter if things go badly for six weeks or six months; ultimately, both you and we will emerge on top.’

He added: ‘The crucial thing at present is that both you and we are arming.’

What’s more: ‘Our enemies are exactly the same.’

Goodness gracious, what a turnabout! I’ve never heard anything like that from the lips of Samuel Hoare. There must be something behind it. Something is brewing in the political ‘atmosphere’ here. Hudson was also desperate to tell me something important, but Hoare wouldn’t let him get a word in. He merely managed to remark: ‘We and you are countries that should be trading with one another on a vast scale. On a much greater scale than we see today.’

Incidentally, it transpired over lunch that Hudson speaks some Russian. In his youth he once served as an attaché at the British embassy in St Petersburg.