Palmstierna: You, of course, do not believe in God?

I: No, I do not.

P.: And you, of course, are a materialist?

I: Absolutely correct – I’m a dialectical materialist.

P.: Well, just wait till you reach my age.

I: And what then?

P.: I, too, was a materialist in my youth. I read much and even wrote on the subject. I also used to say that matter is the basis of all things, that economics determines the relationships between people and states… But now I’ve come to a different conclusion. The longer I live the keener I feel that there is a god who rules the world and that the ideal is more important than the material. You’re surprised, I imagine? Perhaps you think me an eccentric? Never mind, just reach my age – you’ll see!

P.: When I was the minister of foreign affairs in 1919 and 1920, I often had to deal with the difficulties of the Russian Revolution, at least insofar as it 36concerned Sweden. In that period I met Mr Krasin,

Leonid Borisovich Krasin, Soviet commissar for foreign trade from 1920; trade representative in Great Britain 1921–23; Soviet ambassador in France, 1924–25, in Great Britain, 1925–26; died in post. Signed the trade agreement with Great Britain in March 1921, which led to the establishment of de facto relations between the two countries.

whom I consider to this day a great, honest and sincere man. Mrs Krasin published a nasty book about her husband after his death. She didn’t understand the first thing about her husband… So, do you know what I did at that time in order to understand and imagine the Russian Revolution better? I read Carlyle’s

Thomas Carlyle, Scottish author and historian (1795–1881).

two volumes on the French Revolution.

I: And did that help?

P.: Oh, yes, greatly. I developed a better understanding of the spirit, mechanics, and prospects of the Russian Revolution.